thelesbianlifestyle.com

I am thankful every single day that I have never had to deal with things like this. I thank you for writing though, as it reminds me how lucky I am.

I used to think that way too until I met one of my dearest friend’s father.

He was very, VERY unsupportive of my friend “Packie” in the early years… then, at some point, something inside changed and he ended up doing this: http://www.youtube.com/v/85ahfqiynWQ

We can all change our hearts… hell, I’ve done it… sometimes people are blinded by their bigotry and/or beliefs and it takes knowing us — really knowing us to make them see passed it.

I guess I’ve learned never to say never.

Tina-cious.com´s last blog post.."The Uncredited Google Images" meme

I think there is more than one solution to the issue of homophobic family and each person’s situation is unique. Some parents do come around. Some never do. My partners parents came around after a few months and now consider me as much a part of the family as anyone else. My own parents not so much (even after 20 years), but we’ve managed to establish a distant relationship that works for us.

I agree that it is important to stand up for oneself and not allow others to subject you to abuse or insult. Sometimes boundaries need to be set. But keep in mind that sometimes change can happen as families realize that their LGBT family member is just as lovable even after they came out. Visibility can change things in some cases.

We must all make our own choices, and also take responsibility for the consequences of those choices.

Dharma Kelleher´s last blog post..The Opposite of Hate and Violence Isn’t Surrender

I guess one point I’m trying to make here is… how long are we suppossed to wait?. My wife has been struggling with this for 8 years. I find it unacceptable that we should have to put up with that. after 8 years… or 20 in some cases, They are not going to change.
If they don’t love us for who we are, without acception, we don’t need them. We would never tell our balding father that until he can grow some hair we won’t love him as much. We wouldn’t tell an overweight mother that if she doesn’t change her body image we don’t want her around. I see it as no different. Those things are crazy to even think about but yet we allow our families to do exactly that because we feel we need them. I feel we don’t.

I know what you’re going through…though I take a much different approach. I like your forthright style, so I’ll give it to you straight as well.

My parents have never accepted my “lifestyle.” I would not be “permitted” to stay in the same room, she is referred to as my “roommate” (multiple corrections every holiday are necessary), but she is treated very respectfully as a person other than her standing in our relationship. Basically, my folks have a hard case of denial/delusion that’s lasted well over 10 years. They still really think I’m going to marry a “nice, christian man” oneday…um, no.

My approach? I don’t cut them out. To me, blood does run thicker than water. I spend time with them every holiday, but I act exactly how I would act in any other situation with any other people. I am affectionate when I feel it, etc..I correct them when they introduce my gf as my roommate (as if it isn’t suspicious enough that a woman who does well in life would “need” a roommate)….but, we stay elsewhere. Usually I will stay in a nice hotel or with local friends who we haven’t seen.

Truth is, I don’t expect them to change. But, I do have a connection with them that spans far beyond my sexuality…and my family is just the same as anyone elses (maybe, a bit better sexually). I still pick on my sister, reminisce with my mom, and act normal.

I have nothing to run from, and their perception that things are “shameful” is only reinforced if I withdraw and act as if it is.

That’s just my take on it though…everyone has their own unique family to deal with.

Jul´s last blog post..Queen Latifah does a lot of gay things.

I agree with you and disagree with you…surprise surprise, right?

I have cut out people in my life who were nonsupporting, ie. my grandfather. I hope that someday he will wake up and understand me, but I know that it is unlikely. The rest of my family, at least, the close family, is accepting, so that is enough, right?

But that isn’t to say that I think they are all truly understanding, or that I think that some wouldn’t rather me change. The difference is that none of those who think that way have voiced their opinions to me or Beck. Is that respectful? Sure, it is. They don’t want to hurt me or anger me, or cause me to cut them out as well, which I respect as their decision to feel how they want and still be loving to me and Beck.

I also see it as cowardly, as I would rather have someone who has a problem with us voice their feelings aloud, so that the air was clear so to speak. It’s tough subject, and one that is much harder to deal with when it’s your partner’s family and not your own. It hurts at a deeper level, and makes for difficult discussion with your partner if they feel tied to their family regardless of their family’s views.

None of this makes sense to me. Quite honestly Jul’s comment hits the nail on the head. They don’t consider your life as important. They find it OK to pretend that your life is all just some passing phase. They refuse to even acknowledge your girlfriend as your girlfriend. My wifes parents to this and they do it out of embarrassment. they don’t want anyone to know they have a gay daughter. Never fucking mind what it’s doing to their child. Their images is much more important. If you’ve found a way to deal with it that’s great but your just “dealing with it” forcing it on them will not make them come around and start calling your partner “your partner or wife”.
As for my dear friend Sugar-baby. I love you to pieces and you know that but I have to respond to only this part……..
“I also see it as cowardly, as I would rather have someone who has a problem with us voice their feelings aloud, so that the air was clear so to speak. It’s tough subject, and one that is much harder to deal with when it’s your partner’s family and not your own”
Who’s to say that after voicing the problem, that it will go away. The PROBLEM is your being gay or in a lesbian relationship. Until that is rememdied the problem will still exist. I would say let the wind bags talk all they want. WE DON’T NEED THEM. It’s not their life and if they want to be in it they better goddamn accept it.

@I Have a Thought – I know what the problem is…but I want to hear it out of someone’s mouth that they have a problem. I don’t think it will go away, but as some of the people above said, sometimes (not always or usually, but sometimes) it just takes some explanation (as in the case with my step-mother) to put it in terms they have never heard. And frankly, it would be better that I knew that someone had an issue, because then I can decide whether to include that person or people in my life after the fact. Make sense?

I get ya now.

Personally, I think there is always hope for people to change. I haven’t spoken to my mother in 3 years–we didn’t stop talking because I’m gay, but because she is mentally and emotionally abusive. I think that I have certainly changed and grown as a person, and I believe she has the ability to change, too. I offer her that hope and the benefit of that doubt because she’s my mother and I love her no matter what. She hasn’t spoken to me though I’ve tried countless times to make contact–but I’ll wait for her until the end of time.

I think that patience is an extreme virtue in this argument. The uppercase WE DON’T NEED THEM sounds churlish and petty to me, because I have always needed my loved ones, even if they can’t accept me. Unconditional love was taught in my household and I follow that lesson to the letter, even when many don’t. My grandfather is the most homophobic man on the planet, but this stubborn old stick in the mud still drove two days from Texas to Kentucky to see me and give me a hug. If an 80 year old man born and raised in a family of Jehovah’s Witnesses can change his mind about his grandbaby, imagine what other people are capable of!

I have faith in the fact that people change. I understand how waiting as long as some of you have can jade you pretty badly, believe me–but even so, never say you don’t need them. Never say never. The world is far too full of possibility.

Sometimes time is the only medicine in this situation. Once they see that you’re the same you and not someone sinful or sick, they’ll come to realize that they had been acting very silly. But have faith in your loved ones. How can they change if you don’t? Educate them, talk to them. They’ll come around. Mine did.

Chelsea´s last blog post..Reflections on Violence

The good thing about opinions is that they are ours. You will rarely find that everyone holds the same. There is always some variance. As you so nicely put it… WE DON’T NEED THEM sounds “churlish and petty”.
I never said that we shouldn’t work with these people but my question was how long should we.

I have family members that had a rough go at it and later came around but I didn’t and wouldn’t have given them 3 years to figure it out. As for the “petty” part, I find the ignorance of families shunning away their children, calling them names, and cutting them out of wills and trust funds “petty”. I DON’T think it’s petty to stand up for your self and demand that your family give you the respect you deserve and if they don’t do it then SHUT THEM OUT.

I’m mostly speaking here of the people who wait around 5,10,15 years allowing themselves to be punching bags. If they feel that it’s worth it to keep taking it up the ass (proverbially speaking of course) then by all means please proceed.

“WE DON’T NEED THEM” stands firm here and I’ll do you one better by saying that if the problem persists, change your name, your number and move!. A person who constantly verbally abuses you, talks to you as if you don’t matter or generally finds you to be an exhausting waste of their time is not going to come around.

If you my dear feel you need them then go to them but you’re precisely the problem I speak of here. People are like dogs. If you allow them to jump all over you when you walk in the door and if you bend down and pet them while they are exibiting bad behavior, the bad behvior is going to continue. Treat them like you were training a dog.

If you havn’t read my blogs before then you should know that I don’t sugar coat anything. I’m sorry if I’ve struck a chord with you but there are thousands of readers to this site and I cannot worry about all of their feelings. As a matter of fact your most recent post should solidify what we are talking about here. Our people are being beaten and murdered because of intollerance/ignorance and hate. We are allowing it to continue.

Your words are very powerful, and very passionate. That’s a wonderful thing; I admire passion.

You wrote:
As for the “petty” part, I find the ignorance of families shunning away their children, calling them names, and cutting them out of wills and trust funds “petty”. I DON’T think it’s petty to stand up for your self and demand that your family give you the respect you deserve and if they don’t do it then SHUT THEM OUT.

I respond with:
That is indeed petty. It’s hurtful, shameful behavior by uneducated people. In no way did I say that it was petty to stand up for oneself–I apologize if I came across that way–but I did say that it was petty to sink to their level and become the very monster that they are. “SHUT THEM OUT” is only what they are doing to you, and if you can’t overcome your own base anger and frustration, you will become the very thing you loathe. This is why I suggested that you have faith and that you educate them, so that they know and can have the chance to overcome their own bigotry. If you “shut them out” there is no chance, none at all, for reconciliation, and that gets no one anywhere.

You wrote:
“I’m mostly speaking here of the people who wait around 5,10,15 years allowing themselves to be punching bags. If they feel that it’s worth it to keep taking it up the ass (proverbially speaking of course) then by all means please proceed.”

I respond with:
You see it as people allowing themselves to be punching bags. In my opinion that is so very one-sided that it’s no wonder you’re tooting the “SHUT THEM OUT” horn. I know that you cannot worry about everyone’s opinion here, but consider this: you’re posting on a huge blog that many many many people read. Why wouldn’t you consider how your words might be taken? Many are hurt and want nothing more than to reconcile with their loved ones, and the best advice you can give is for them to sink to the level of uneducated bigots and shut them out just as they do to you. I was shocked by this insensitivity and lack of compassion.

You wrote:
““WE DON’T NEED THEM” stands firm here and I’ll do you one better by saying that if the problem persists, change your name, your number and move!. A person who constantly verbally abuses you, talks to you as if you don’t matter or generally finds you to be an exhausting waste of their time is not going to come around.”

I respond with:
My entire childhood, from conception to the time I moved out on my 18th birthday, was spent being verbally and mentally abused. By the time I escaped my household, I had no clue that I was just a normal human being with needs just as much as anyone else. I cut myself, I nearly killed myself, and I see a therapist and a psychiatrist monthly not to overcome my problems, but to learn how to live with them. I did exactly what you suggest here, sans changing my name. I rather like my name.

But why, why, why would I even THINK to sink to my mother’s level? I cut her out of my life and though these past three years have been a miracle of freedom for me, they have been painful without her presence. Like it or not she gave birth to me. She is woman, hear her roar! Cutting her off completely does not solve any problems. I know this from experience. Instead, why don’t you try to understand where they are coming from when they yell and scream at you? What made them the person they are? If you can look at them in context then you can CERTAINLY find a way to reconcile. If you can take one moment and try to analyze what the problem is, where it’s coming from, and why, then you are one step closer to solving it. Running away from your problems does. Not. Solve. Anything.

You wrote:
“If you my dear feel you need them then go to them but you’re precisely the problem I speak of here. People are like dogs. If you allow them to jump all over you when you walk in the door and if you bend down and pet them while they are exibiting bad behavior, the bad behvior is going to continue. Treat them like you were training a dog.”

I respond with:
If that is your view on humanity then I pity you like I pity no one else on this earth. That is so sorrowful, and I am sorry you feel that way.

You wrote:
“If you havn’t read my blogs before then you should know that I don’t sugar coat anything. I’m sorry if I’ve struck a chord with you but there are thousands of readers to this site and I cannot worry about all of their feelings. As a matter of fact your most recent post should solidify what we are talking about here. Our people are being beaten and murdered because of intollerance/ignorance and hate. We are allowing it to continue.”

I respond with:
My most recent post was a reflection on the violence we face(d) and how we can solve the problem by education. By cutting off the masses that show us bigotry, we only increase the problem. That is willful ignorance and it is downright shameful.

I respect your opinion; I respect all living beings’ opinion. I like that you don’t sugar-coat things. At a time like this, nothing needs to be sugar-coated. However, I think you’re taking a gigantic step backwards, and that your argument is only a few intelligent words away from being the rant of an angsty teenager. Forgive me, but I must speak clearly about that.

I understand the pain involved. We’re all in this together. But if we become apart of the very problem we seek to solve, how the fuck will we get anywhere?

Chelsea´s last blog post..Sex

For some reason you seem to be taking this personal. Let me tell you a quick but very true story. My wife came out to her parents almost 8 years ago. They were of course, not receptive to it…. “I put you in dresses”, “You dated men”, and so on. In that time her sister had a baby. The family refused to have my wife around because she was in their eyes “dirty”. Over the years (8) I have watched my wife cry, fall into depression (which she is still in) and literally plead for them to understand. We have offered to go to PFLAG meetings with them and gave them times, locations and dates. We have even gone so far as to pay for group therapy… with me included… with money out of our own pockets (lots of money). The niece thing has changed since but everything else remains the same. Our lives have been deeply affected by the actions of her family. No one can say we didn’t try as a matter of fact I believe we went above and beyond while her family stood idly by and did nothing to help the situation.

Are you suggesting that we continue on this path? the pleading, the crying the gut wrenching pain it all causes simply because you think if we don’t we are sinking to their level? I’m sorry but I disagree.

I don’t believe that is a “level” they are simply ignorant and refuse to learn or hear the truth. It’s not a “level” to sink to.

We have put our lives on hold for far too long. As have many others in this situation and there are many others. It’s all too common. We as a society (lgbt) need to start standing up for our rights (what little we do have) and demanding equlaity in our communities and in our families. I ask you, would you attend a church that hated you because you were gay? Would you walk into a wedding planner who openly denounces lesbians and gays and give them your money? I wouldn’t

I simply see it as standing up for ourselves. This has been going on for far too long. I think we are afraid of reprocussions, on what level I’m not sure. We’ve all been made fun of throughout our lives and it hurts. We don’t want to hurt any more so we keep our mouths shut and take what comes.

I truly appreciate your difference of opinion as that is what makes us all different. There was one comment you made that I believe was meant as a “dig”. You said

“your argument is only a few intelligent words away from being the rant of an angsty teenager

While I will give you that it is a good dig, I will close my argument with this.

Yes this is an open forum. I was personally asked to blog on this site because I have a more controversial point of view and sometimes things get a smidge dull around here. I havn’t found a person on this site who has taken my words personally but simply took them as they are…My Opinions. If my words appear to you to be angsty and teenager-ish then so be it.

It is my hope that people will read our conversation and think more deeply about the situations they are all facing in their own personal lives and decide to do something about it so for that I thank you. I am by no means a literary genius and perhaps may not have the vocabulary that you do but just as my words appear to be that of an angsty teenager (or a few intelligent words away from that) Your words come off as weak to me. But it is all in the eye of the beholder.

I’m truly sorry for the pain you’ve suffered as in your younger days but obviously you have used it to make yourself stronger and that is to be commended. Where our differences come into play here is that you have repaired …. or tried to repair.. or are still in the process of repairing the relationship with your mother. I would not have done that. I guess you’d have to get my sad life story to understand that one.
thanks for the difference of opinion.

Thank you for telling me your story. I’m very happy to have been able to read that about you. And for the record, I don’t take it personally, I’m just trying to notify you that perhaps the advice you’re giving is not the best for everyone. It worries me when someone proudly proclaims that another should cut off their relatives simply because they don’t accept them; that shows immaturity to me because no one can demand acceptance overnight. It’s a hugely long process. There are all sorts of people that could take your advice the wrong way. You see?

I dunno…perhaps I just feel too great of a responsibility for the people that read my blog. It’s in my nature to worry. XD

I’m glad that you honestly tried to work with your family, and believe me when I say that I’m so very sorry that it hasn’t worked out. At that, I would definitely agree that perhaps leaving them to their own devices is the best option for you in particular.

You wrote:
“Are you suggesting that we continue on this path? the pleading, the crying the gut wrenching pain it all causes simply because you think if we don’t we are sinking to their level? I’m sorry but I disagree.”

I respond with:
We’ll just agree to disagree. But then again, I’m one of those really hopeful people, I guess. The reactions of others to my own “taboo” actions doesn’t bother me much anymore. If someone didn’t want me at my own family reunion, for instance, I’d go anyway. Fuck them, it’s my family. You see what I mean? If all of them didn’t want me to go, like I imagine your wife’s parents would probably say (or someone of the same so-called loving demeanor) I would still go. Then I would soak the watermelons in Everclear.

You wrote:
“I simply see it as standing up for ourselves. This has been going on for far too long. I think we are afraid of reprocussions, on what level I’m not sure. We’ve all been made fun of throughout our lives and it hurts. We don’t want to hurt any more so we keep our mouths shut and take what comes.”

I respond with:
Standing up for yourself is so very important. I admire you for expressing that so powerfully! You have a very lively personality. Personally, I’m not saying we should lie down and let people walk all over us. But fighting back in an intelligent way is much better in my opinion than suggesting to others that they cut others off. Perhaps I’m a die-hard pacifist. That was my point in the first place.

You wrote:
“Yes this is an open forum. I was personally asked to blog on this site because I have a more controversial point of view and sometimes things get a smidge dull around here. I havn’t found a person on this site who has taken my words personally but simply took them as they are…My Opinions. If my words appear to you to be angsty and teenager-ish then so be it.”

I respond with:
There’s a reason why I said that, and it wasn’t to be rude or cutting. I was speaking my mind, just like you. I thought the way that you expressed yourself, the whole “WE DON’T NEED THEM” thing sounded petulant. In truth it reminded me of how I felt when I was nineteen and lashing out at whatever hurt me. So in that respect I suppose you could say that I was taking that personally, though I’ve tried not to.

That being said, however, you say it loud and say it proud. You’ve defended yourself very powerfully here and you have every right to. I respect that.

You wrote:
“It is my hope that people will read our conversation and think more deeply about the situations they are all facing in their own personal lives and decide to do something about it so for that I thank you. I am by no means a literary genius and perhaps may not have the vocabulary that you do but just as my words appear to be that of an angsty teenager (or a few intelligent words away from that) Your words come off as weak to me. But it is all in the eye of the beholder.”

I respond with:
I hope the same thing. I’m glad we were able to communicate civilly, despite my remark. No one has to be a literary genius; it happens to be my only strong point (I failed math and chemistry!). My words may come off as weak, and I understand that, and accept that. Indeed the beholder has the powah.

You wrote:
“Where our differences come into play here is that you have repaired …. or tried to repair.. or are still in the process of repairing the relationship with your mother. I would not have done that. I guess you’d have to get my sad life story to understand that one.”

I respond with:
She hasn’t returned my calls in almost a month. I don’t think repairing the relationship is going to work out now…but I did try. I didn’t want to try for a long time. She never wants to put forth any effort to rectify things. However, I don’t see my attempts as weak. I think I’m the stronger person for wanting to reconcile. Any attempt to make nice with anyone is a gesture of strength in my opinion.

Thank you for the differing opinion.

Chelsea´s last blog post..Sex

I used to think that I was the luckiest homosexual,g_d knows I felt like the most loved- when it came to the the absolute acceptance I have
been given from every member of my family. I’m the youngest of seven,
no doubt that has had a lot to do with my experience. I too have little
to no tolerance of unaccepting people. As for “giving them time”–
I’m not too into indulging someone elses bigotted behavior. My last
gf was from a particularly ignorant family. The emotional bullshit
they put her through- that she allowed them to put her through-oh wow……….. I will not apologize for my homosexuality-ever. My mot-
her and father, all six siblings,17 neices and 5 nephews are on the
same page. I’ve thought about this issue many times over the years and
I came down to a really fundamental truth, insofar as parents go-
you either love your child or you don’t. Conditions are not love.

then fuck the rest. And of course that’’s a luxury I know not everyone has.